Holy shit.

what.😢

WTF

Will be missed.

Damn

This is a bit of a surprise, given the hype. This feels a lot like the early days of Bitcoin, loads of early start ups that didn't last.

I felt this more than the btc dip

Maintaining software takes a lot of work, so I understand this decision. Still, loved Mutiny. Good luck!

Bear market confirmed

Yeah this makes me sad

Probably one of the coolest wallets ever created. It was fun while it lasted.

Geez what's with these projects? I see thing wind up then burn out. I don't even use this wallet and I'm disappointed.

You’ve all done well. You’ve helped explore an uncharted territory. It’s sad to see such an amazing product go. Wish you all the best. And it’s great how you all see this is a huge learning opportunity.

I even bought a shirt

At least I got a cool shirt out of it.

Thanks for the honesty. Can you clarify, 'fallen out of love with bitcoin?'

Mutiny is open source and even MIT license so thank you very much for your service. You are making the world a better place. I have questions though. You raised $800k in a year with a 1yo (?) startup and are quitting now just one year later? I want to learn more about all this. How? Who are the investors and what's with their investment? Do they own a share of that new product you are building now? And what is this about: "For one, I've fallen out of love for Bitcoin and the industry."? @Deleted Account ? Please elaborate a bit what is actually killing Mutiny? Is it the lack of profitability?

sad to hear this, godspeed 🫂

Sad

I was so excited for PLN and later for the mutiny mainnet beta. They are crazy talented and pioneered many great inovations. AFAIK they were (and still are) the first self custody wallet with NWC support. It's a sad day when a self custody wallet goes down instead of a custodian.

Time for the community to step up

"Chef Paul Officer role" = chief product officer?

It's becoming increasingly hard to run a Lightning node over the past year. Self custodial Lightning with a great user experience is hard enough, without having USA regulatiors breathing down your neck. I wish this team and their users the best of luck.

Well, shit.

@npub1eequ...at9s please don’t pull the mutiny Marlboro shirt yet I need one but I don’t want to spend my sats until the dippity dip quits dipping 😭

This is sad. Mutiny was the one I was going to use once I could scrounge up enough spare change to get onto the Lightning Wallet game.

I am sorry to hear this guys. Is there a way to get the funds out ? I have 5000 outbound liquidity and 9000 sats in wallet.

Send all your sats to an on-chain address from another one of your wallets.

I would also like to hear more about this

Look, as a nostr user, I'm just going to offer a post-mortem opinion. I like the people involved, but I never understood why it was a good product. Not saying it wasn't, I'm saying comms were not clear enough as to the benefits.

I'm cheering for you guys. Thanks for building this stack and best of luck!

Hate to see it, but be sure to handle your business accordingly.

+1

Same

No, I mean once you close your Lightning channels, you'll still have all the sats (minus mining fees) in your Mutiny wallet, but on-chain. So then you can send them to any on-chain address.

"fuck it dude, let's go to the web." looking back was that a mistake?

I always considered Mutiny as one of the best wallets out there with the most promising outlook for the future. Very sad to hear that this didn't work out. All the best for whatever comes next. You guys rock!

NOOOOOO 😭

Nooo

Oh.. things are moving fast, notin thw direction the most was hoping for

Sad day. Mutiny wallet has worked perfectly for me. Can't say the same for Zeus.

Thank you for all you did excited for the new direction in the future 💜

@npub1dsne...3wd8 is gonna kill me I just switched her to Mutiny 😂

Godammit View quoted note →

😭 😭 I feel I was only finally taking the very much needed dive into Mutiny after sitting with it on the sidelines. Was excited about what you guys have been building. 🫡 View quoted note →

breez/phoenix

Market pricing this in

I hope you can still conceive the awesome tech you were building 🫂

Sad to hear this. Mutiny has been prime on what what is currently possible in Lightning on mobile. If they couldn't sustain it without going custodially, i doubt anyone can. From an end user UX perspective we really have not progressed much further than 2019' @npub1chxa...rjdd (lite wallet with reliable Sent + custodial component for Receive, up to a limit)

Sad to see this. 😕 You guys definitively moved the ball forward. We are all grateful to you for that! Looking forward to see what you'll come up with next. Hope your next project involves both Nostr and Bitcoin. 🫂 @Deleted Account, @Paul, @Carman

No! That's sad. I will miss them. 😢

Awe but why

Sir, join our Community Call or Onboarding session, you'll get the invite there and private support ;)

Cal.com

Alby | Cal.com

👋 Hey, this is the Alby team - we’re empowering consumers and developers with easy-to-use bitcoin payment tools using the lightning network - ...

🫂

Best of luck gents 🧡

Can I use alby with two completely separate npubs/nwc/lnurl accounts (registered to the same personal e-mail address)? In other words, can i get two separate LNadresses within a single alby account? E.g. if I wanted to manage a personal account completely separate from a professional account from the same alby account. Can i open two separate wallets and have two separate lightning addresses / NWCs for this?

Are they available outside the US?

Sad to see you go…I was a big fan..on to the next adventure! Wish you all the best!!

Yes

My channel shows as closed and balance is onchain.now but when go to send shows balance of zero. Hopefully it's just taking time for the unchain to actually hit a block, otherwise rip

Well done for pushing the boat out and innovating in a tricky space. Much respect. See you on the next thing.

I had this same issue that’s why I was confused lol

Yeah, that might be what's happening. In Mutiny, if you select the pending transaction, it'll show you a pop-up with all the transaction's information. Click on the link at the bottom next to "TXID", and it'll take you to where you can see your transaction in the mempool (be sure to scroll down and click on "see more details"). That way, you can verify where it is, and get a good idea how much longer it'll be until it's confirmed.

I'll bite. 1) why is that good ? 2) what are the chances they lose the sats ? 3) what are the privacy garantees? 4) Is there any restrictions to spending I should know about ? 5) how does that compare to e-cash like e-nuts ? I have a ton of questions

Can you offer it outside of U.S.?

well done guys, admirable effort

I have the similar issue and cant Transfer my on-chain funds. After closing the channel I see in the pop-up the following text "Channel closed because of an exception: closing_signef negotiation failed to finish within two timer ticks". I can only see the channel ID, so how can I get more information about the transaction?

First the miners go... then the wallets go... Is no one else reading tea leaves?

This is a very sad day. We need more user friendly lightning wallets, not less. Mutiny was such a good attempt. Easy and zero cost onboarding with fedimint, combined with self custodial lightning. There must be people with funds and the right skills to take this vision forward in one way or another.

Sad to see Mutiny go.

Opensats/ @ODELL @Gigi are you able to provide a grant /funding for this important OSS project to continue or perhaps to create a path to re-use their skills, knowledge and tech? If there was a specific fund, I would donate to it also!

While it's sad to see maintainers step away from an open source project, it doesn't mean the project has to die. If the users wasn't to keep it alive and are willing to put in the time and effort, it can live on!

Mhmmmmmm

Very very sad to hear this! Mutiny Wallet was one of the few privacy focused wallets...

Bruh they already got grants & VC monies.

OpenSats

First Wave of Bitcoin Grants

OpenSats is funding over a dozen projects in the bitcoin & lightning ecosystem.

This stacker news post from the mutiny devs provides some additional thoughts on the state of #bitcoin and #lightning. Has lightning failed to deliver bitcoin to the masses or do we just accept that bitcoins scaling solution is simply custodians?

Stacker News

Rethinking Lightning \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Over the last few months it feels the bitcoin community has gotten more and more jaded on lightning. To be honest, this is for good reason, back in...

Mutiny is a Lightning and Fedimint wallet, and the answer to those questions are mostly the same as other Lightning / Fedimint wallets. What makes it interesting is that it's a progressive web app: as long as you maintain your seed phrase and aren't currently running it somewhere else, you can open the wallet using any web browser that can load app.mutinywallet.com.

maybe they should branch out into @npub1nyyh...7gan

of course not but the shut down would definitely ensure that there will never be any heat

Money was raised pre-seed. We’re still working with the investors and the new product ideas will be in the freedom technology and privacy space. Strong alignment with investor philosophy. We’re extremely grateful for the people who believed in us.

Would be amazing to see a community instance of Mutiny Wallet.

Los esperamos con el proyecto que traigan, siempre para mejor

Close your channel and the funds will end up in the on chain wallet. Then you can send them to any on chain wallet.

You can run Mutiny on a @Start9 instance if you’d like.

i feel like that would be beyond my level of competency right now but i hope to get into stuff like that sometime soon.

Got the money and left

😢 ເສົ້າກວ່າລາຄາບິດຄອຍລົງອີກ

m' coooooool looking mutiny plus 😭

thanks

You guys did a great job ! Not perfect, but that’s to be expected. Wish you all the best for the future endeavors.

Ok, so it's a disposable fedi/ln wallet ? probably useful, definitely too early.

Phoenix is technically self hosting your own device

Loved what you guys built. Really wishing y’all the best in what comes next!

same here. did your issue get resolved?

You guys build awesome stuff, I'm sure what ever you do next will be even better! Great blog post, burn out is real and a good sign it's time to reevaluate what you really want to do.

Thanks for the words 🧡 We want to keep that going in big ways. 🤘

Good feedback. Thanks.

Wasn’t due to politics.

Nope

We’re working on something. We’ll reach out.

wow, painful news. Been a big mutiny fan.

It wasnt about the money it was about the product not being scalable and meeting their own expectations. Besides that they made huge contributions to and built a ton of OSS.

@OpenSecret @Deleted Account can you suggest an alternative mobile wallet which supports Fedimint at the moment?

This is so unfortunate, this was my go-to orange-pilling wallet The perfect balance between speed, noncustodial ecash and custodial for larger balances. When you're orange-pilling someone and likely you are paying them 10-20$ for a meal, you shouldn't do it on-chain + 10 minute confirmation time makes it hard to communicate why it's so great Such a shame, well, onward lads -- i'm sure you guys will do great things

Hey, kind of! You can generate and use multiple Nostr keys in the Extension. They work entirely on your machine and are a separate thing from Alby Account, LNURL and NWC. Yes, you can have multiple Alby Accounts,registered on different e-mails (you need an invite code for new one, though). If you launch Alby Hub, you will get 'invite a friend' feature in your Account, so you could invite yourself. With each Alby Accounts comes one LN Address. Moreover, in the Alby Hub you can create Isolated NWC Connection, that effectively creates subwallets on your Hub node. Then you can link Alby Accounts with these NWCs, so few LN Addresses could share one node (but with separate balances). Hope that helps!?

Oh wow, thank you. I will try all of this and report back.

SAYING THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD: BITCOIN WITHOUT COVENANTS HAS NO WORKABLE SOLUTION FOR FULLY SELF CUSTODIAL SMALL PAYMENTS AND HODLing. All solutions such as Liquid, custodial lightning, ecash, etc. make reasonable trade offs for certain people and situations given BTC as it exists today, but they are all custodial and strictly worse than BTC self custody would be with even the most basic covenants. *I intentionally exclude running a fully self sovereign lightning setup because this just isn’t practical for the masses, we are all learning this the hard way in real time.

Do you think it's a good idea for us to run a community version?

What other OSS contributions did they make?

Maintenance and support will be the biggest concerns. There's unfortunately no one outside of the team that has any familiarity with the very technical pieces that make up the wallet. While it is possible, I would take caution and manage expectations using any community or self hosted version going forward. We will not be available to assist.

Do you continue to work on harbour Wallet ?

Gotcha. Would you be able to leave some rough notes for anyone that wanted to pick it up? Something like Satoshi said, "This is for intrepid developers that are prepared to read the source code ..."

Nevermind. I suppose it's @Fedi!

The shutdown of Mutiny Wallet is a result of many factors; directly it was a result of the backbone of the wallet being fundamentally broken at a self-custodial level, and indirectly a result of increasing criminalization of privacy in a world where it is both personally and professionally disregarded. I am not a Bitcoin maxi, and have never labelled myself as such for the sole reason of knowing better. Bitcoin is better money, and is something I actively want to be adopted, yet I know it is something that can actively be improved upon. The argument for not increasing the block size was always a disingenuous one, as Bitcoin was initially introduced without any block size limits, and one was only created due to early technical issues which have long been resolved; the hatred for Bitcoin Cash was always one born from bruised egos and the admittedly unscrupulous actions of Roger Ver surrounding the .com domain for Bitcoin among other things. It showed that raising the block size wouldn't immediately result in the centralization of mining pools, or push individual validators out of downloading and verifying transactions on the blockchain. With that being said, Lightning was conceptualized two years before the SegWit split occurred and thus its eventual realization cannot be attributed to Bitcoin Cash; what it CAN be attributed to is its accelerated development. Lightning is a piece of shit. At a fundamental level, it was always a band-aid solution to Bitcoin's early block size restraints that no one wanted to revoke after Satoshi's disappearance (which also had a knock-back effect of reducing its natural scalability), despite the 1 MB restriction clearly being introduced as a temporary measure meant to reduce the potential of double spending and a bloated blockchain size similar to that of CSW's Shitoshi's Venture (SV) shitcoin; with very few exceptions which have their own problems depending on the SDK used, it is near impossible to make reliably self-custodial Lightning wallets that don't have their own issues. Custodial wallets and services obfuscate from users liquidity management, issues underpinning what software is used to power Lightning functionality (LND, Core Lightning, Eclair, etc.) and the necessity of being online at all times; whereas developments in transacting with on-chain Bitcoin have been somewhat realized, very little offline Lightning solutions have even been conceptualized owing to its off-chain nature requiring distinct ways of transactional verification. It is also a band-aid on a far bigger issue, depending on who you ask, which is Bitcoin's absolute transparency. Monero was created in the aftermath of Ross Ulbricht's example-making persecution by the United Territories of Israel's government, as no deep/darknet user wanted to experience the level of deanonymization that Dread Pirate Roberts had been subjected to, and wanted to transact with a currency that would guarantee full anonymity whether it be for complicit or illicit purposes. Various voices in the Bitcoin scene that don't immediately write Monero off as a shitcoin (while ironically doing the same for Cash) have proposed taking what Monero does right and gradually implement it on-chain, just to be met derisively either with "Lighting exists, and is better" (it's not) or claims that making Bitcoin more private would result in its crackdown and criminal persecution of anyone using it, which further adds to the fact that Bitcoin's largest problem (yes, more than the corporate influence of Blockstream and deliberately rigid philosophical dichotomy) has been the community's perception around privacy. Privacy is an absolute human right, and I see it as no coincidence that every effort made to improve Bitcoin's anonymous viability by a group or individual (regardless of my feelings on said software being a band-aid on top of others obscuring larger issues) has resulted in maximum federal persecution towards those daring to get Bitcoin even a quarter closer to where Monero is (which has resulted in it only being able to be obtained through mining or DEX's). Despite my positions likely going to lead to pushback from those who insist that Bitcoin is absolutely perfect as is, and that I'm a filthy shitcoiner who shouldn't have an opinion on anything, I want to thank @Deleted Account for creating the easiest self-custodial Lightning wallet to exist and for hosting your company's version of it as long as you did; it was what introduced my younger brother and girlfriend to self-custody and the bright spots of Lightning when it all clicks and DOESN'T lead to financial loss (still bitter about that, @ZEUS lol), and its app store independent nature allowing the focus to be on making the wallet better rather than capitulating to companies that can both fuck off as far as I'm concerned allowed Mutiny to become THE hub for Bitcoin's future developments in admittedly contentious areas like Cashu that has its ardent supporters. May the best come to you, and continue to come to sound magic money. View quoted note →

Thx, I see that now. I didn't know before. 🫡

Mine went thru 👍

Wow, I was not expecting this. Mutiny was my go to daily driver. It was a bit glitchy at times, but in terms of the wallet I wanted to work it was everything.

Lol, patience, lightning is only 5% complete, people grinding to find bridges and make LN available to all. Rome wasn't built in a day etc.

Sorry to hear that. Mutiny wallet was great. I'm sure whatever comes next will also be great ❤️

Thanks for the feedback. I think @npub148qm...jra7 comes with a convenient and simple user interface, even similar to muun the most simple UI ever, but with the biggest benefit being self custodial! Good test from @Anita

Lightning Wallets: Self-Custody Despite Poor Network Connection - Best Apps Tested in Zimbabwe 2024

Testing self-custodial Lightning wallets with results on their payment reliability, speed, user-friendliness, fees and security features.

Is there a way to swap 50k sats from a federation to lighting? Says I need minimum of 100k. Is there another way? Or another federation I can join that will allow me to swap to lightning? #asknostr

I hope some folks continue the open source project. Mutiny Wallet is too good to disappear.. I'm willing to donate to the development.

Raise an issue on github

any changes to blastr or the relay?