I recently discovered @SimpleX Chat
It reminds me of the kind of decentralization Nostr has but for a private chat client.
What other decentralized apps like these should I be looking at?
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Replies (139)
Have you seen reticulum.network and/or meshtastic? I like RF comms can be the next field of freedom tech liberation.
Bitchat?
Go #cybiko man, that's much more important than apps
And ofc, bitchat
also matrix
Simplex is great. Very easy to host your own relays.
Try Deltachat for E2EE over email.
Not Another Protocol™
We have just launched Vector. @V E C T O R
Decentralized, Open Source, Free to Use
End-to-End, No-Compromise Encryption
Invite Code: CSJCNVXG
Send me a message if you test it out.
GitHub
Vector Privacy
Private & Encrypted Messenger App - Built on Nostr - Vector Privacy
Send me a message if you test it out.
Evolution of Receiving Addresses in Signal, Simplex Chat, and Keychat
A receiving address is indispensable to any chat application—just as an envelope needs only the recipient’s address. Because this address is exposed plaintext metadata, its design determines how much metadata privacy the user enjoys.
Signal each user has a single receiving address that is also their ID. For Bob and Carl alike, Alice’s address is always the same—simply A—and it never changes.
Simplex Chat Here, the receiving address (smp://<queueKey>@<relay-host>/<queueId>) is different for every contact. Alice has one fixed address for Bob, A(b), and another for Carl, A(c). Having separate—but constant—addresses for each contact is already a significant improvement over Signal’s single, global address.
Keychat Keychat goes a step further: the address not only differs per contact but also rotates over time. Alice begins with A(b1)for Bob and A(c1) for Carl; after she replies, they become A(b2) and A(c2), and so on. Each time Alice responds to Bob, her address is refreshed. This dynamic, per-contact rotation provides even stronger privacy than Simplex’s static per-contact addresses.
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I somehow missed following you. Didnt expect you to actually stick around on Nostr. Inspiring.
Followed.
White Noise is the nostr based SimpleX. Pretty new but promising.
@White Noise
npub1whtn0s68y3cs98zysa4nxrfzss5g5snhndv35tk5m2sudsr7ltms48r3ec
White Noise
The chat with no phone number. Powered by Bitcoin and Nostr.
github.com/parres-hq/whitenoise_flutter
Congratulations on your discovery. This is the best messenger in terms of privacy/security in the last 20 years.
It's a young project in BETA right now but is developing really well, many NOSTR firsts like typing indicators, speech to text using only local ai, more file upload types, etc. Also probably one of the smallest and fastest clients I have seen. Not sure why the beta requires a referral code but if you need one: KNSPZNH1
GitHub
GitHub - VectorPrivacy/Vector: Privacy is a basic human right.
Privacy is a basic human right. Contribute to VectorPrivacy/Vector development by creating an account on GitHub.
Take a look at XMRchat (https://xmrchat.com/).
It is a platform like Patreon (
except paymenta to content creators and streamers are P2P and with Monero.
Patreon
Empowering Creators and Building Communities — Patreon
Patreon is the best place to build community with your biggest fans, share exclusive work, and turn your passion into a lasting creative business.
check #0xchat ， the best nostr private chat client
Nothing that keeps people using their default server list should be called "decentralized". If choosing your own server is not a key activity for the user, then there is no decentralization.
Why the google link?
Whitenoise sounds promising.
Useless in the real world, lousy vibe coded design. It only got media coverage not because the software but because… well you know
No iOS yet
I have it on iOS, you need to download TestFlight to run it.
@White Noise @npub1mftv...rkl3 and bitchat
#Reticulum
Reticulum.network
They should recommend Bitcoin for payments though. Lightning is more private than Monero.
They have a token now, so pass. Use Signal/Molly or even better SimpleX White Noise
a decentralized drug market
Keets great
@Seth For Privacy has some great privacy resources
Matrix / Element
Keet
SimpleX and Keychat; Keychat remains my favorite, I tested it a few months back with another user.
g⭕;.;⭕d thread/*****t *Y* all ^_^
simplex*/*
<ATM>
Check Syncthing for synchronizing files between devices. It can do it locally, but also encrypted over some kind of relays over the internet.
#asknostr
Due to the peer-to-peer non-custodial nature of the payments, the platform cannot sign transactions on senders' behalf. Each sender must actively sign each transaction they want to send. So it is not possible to set up a subscription plan with automatic regular payments.
They can, however, choose the amount they want to donate freely for each payment.
That depends totally on many different factors. If you believe that you are likely misguided by supernet who gives focus on one aspect only.
HolePunch can be used to build P2P apps. Keet is a messaging app built with it
I get you, just not sure why you don't like the app because of that.. the token incentivizes the people running a node to keep running it which helps make the app decentralized.
Meshtastic
Awesome! Have considered a PWA version for those who don’t like Apple abusive policies?
Check out bitchat. It's very early but it seems to be exactly what we need to deprecate ISPs. Very exciting!
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bitchat
What does PWA refer to?
Progressive Web Apps (PWAs), standards have evolved quite a lot from this video but is still good for an overview
SimpleX is my favorite chat app, but honorable mentions are Element (Matrix), DeltaChat, Briar, Signal (centralized)
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@mwaters any recommandations for Ross ?
Looks great, but I can't find the source code...
Check:
rate
🟩=3
🟨=1
🟥=0
Result
86 #Threema = 86 Security Points = most secure #Messenger
81 #SimpleX Chat
77 #Signal
77 #Session
68 #Wire
61 #Wickr (Amazon)
56 #Element / Matrix
37 #Apple iMessage
32 #WhatsApp
27 #Telegram
26 #Facebook Messenger
10 #Microsoft Skype
Secure Messaging Apps Comparison | Privacy Matters
This site compares secure messaging apps from a security & privacy point of view. These include Facebook Messenger, iMessage, Skype, Signal, Simple...
@White Noise
And @jack ‘s #bitChat
keet.io
i know right? almost 2 years since i first contacted them and asked wen open source.
so, yeah, i don't use it. i can at least build simplex from source, pain in the arse as it may be compiling haskell (you need more than 16gb memory)
Its not like patreon at all? Its a monero based superchat like on youtube where you get to keep 100% of the donations 👍👍👍
It can give you good privacy I guess but practically youd have to account for multiple aspects to come together to make it work so. Monero is hassle free and reliable 👍
Super buggy 🙁
What's the main difference between white noise and simplex
![Kilombino[ṩtr] 𓅦丰's avatar](https://image.nostr.build/23ee33cac87bf71b98e809e2d990cf0a04c5aa1af452383f8a845479e072d79f.gif)
First of all Whitenoise uses nostr and SimpleX uses SMP
It runs on the mother of all shitcoins and it incentivizes generating wealth from nothing (staking) for a token used to “unlock, access, and interact with premium features offered in the Session ecosystem”
There no multiple aspects to come together. Download @ZEUS, done
@Super Testnet is very right. Plus, Monero doesn’t scale, ring signatures are too heavy. And you can’t audit it. Bitcoin + lightning + ecash is the best combination
Vast majority of Lightning users don't have very good privacy. They're either using custodial wallets or LSPs that see a lot. Ecash is cool, but custodial. Doesn't offer you sovereign privacy and there are problems with large payments being identifiable by the mint since it uses denomination buckets.
Even when you use Lightning correctly it's a trade-off between allowing third party hops to see at least partial amounts. Monero is better at hiding transaction amounts from third parties since it uses pedersen commitments. Lightning perhaps better for hiding from counter parties. But all depends how it's used.
Thanks kilombimo 🤙
Yep, except Moreno is going to ZERO against Bitcoin
That's speculation and off the subject. Now beat it and let the big boys talk about privacy.
Simplex is an inspiration for White Noise, we need similar or even better encryption ontop of nostr web of trust. It will take a while before White Noise is stable, but until then it's a fun adventure to explore and give feedback on how we can make it better.
A solid list to be a part of!
Get White Noise at whitenoise.chat/download
That's correct.
Also White Noise uses the new internet standard Message Layer Security (MLS) which is well audited and has security proofs, while SimpleX has their own encryption scheme. In theory White Noise should scale to encrypted groups with millions of participants, we still have a lot of work to do to make this possible.
The main difference is, that White Noise builds ontop of the Nostr MLS protocol, and so it should be compatible with a lot of other nostr clients that will support secure messages, like @primal
We’re building @White Noise to be the most secure messenger in the world built on top of Nostr’s network and bitcoin’s unstoppable monetary properties.
Would love to hear your thoughts!
HFSP
Will it ever have audio video calls ?
Can I download ZEUS, load it up and send USD 10k worth to anyone accepting LN and expect it to work or stay private 🤔
Yes.
I thought receiver and nodes on the route would need to offer sufficient capacity beforehand to even handle the transaction no? How would a route be formed to a node thats not connected to my part of the network yet? Wouldnt a exceptionally large transaction be recognized as such by nodes when balancing their channels? Maybe sending BTC 100 worth would be different? Sorry for giving so much questions but I have limited understanding of UX on LN
#monero is great for privacy.
#monero has #xmrbazaar
#bitcoincash is #lightning fast!
#bitcoincash has #cashfusion for fungibilty
#bitcoincash has #MUSD decentralized #stablecoin
#bitcoincash has DeFi
#litecoin is the most used coin for purchases
#litecoin has fungibility
All three can be traded privately on #BasicSwap
When it comes to sovereignty & ease of use, these three make a winning team.
#XMR #BCH #LTC #forthewin
Yes.
It may take months to get it working properly and it's fine. We are here to keep testing the best privacy tech out there.
Sometimes the app needs to be closed and reopened, to be able to send invitation
When are you expecting adding payments to the client?
Simplex has incognito mode, very practical feature...
Cool 🆒
How can I use White Noise on an iPhone?
My main way of keeping in touch with privacy-focused individuals is Signal currently
Necesitamos una Red que sirva para tomar decisiones masa, que ayude a organizarnos en Comunidad para tomar decisiones colaborativas... Deberíamos de pensar en una comunidad de gobernanza Holocrática.
Creación de nuevas Instituciones descentralizadas resilientes con los usuarios. Ayudarnos, protegernos, y defendernos. Id todos a una 💪
What do you think of Urbit?
A secure/nostr version of could be really interesting
hack.chat
You can get a channel of that capacity from our LSP or open it to another peer of your choosing. As long as your channel partner is well connected you can reach virtually anywhere on the network.
Senders have exceptional privacy by default on Lightning. Larger amounts can have more difficulties, yes, but at this point the network has matured to the point that 10k is somewhat trivial and 100k is doable.
Ok thats sounds like what I thought. Routing and liquidity are limiting aspects to consider. The "senders have exceptional privacy by default" seems somewhat overblown as I dont think that would be the case for most users setups no? I also heard from many users they had issue sending succesfully or getting their channels closed even tho they said they have a non-custodial setup with fenix wallet. So even tho I dont know about Zeus itself, it seems like youd have to be quite educated to use it reliably. Thanks for elaborating your point 👍
If it will telecom infrastructure it is doomed to fail.
Thanks, I have fun every day staying private.
Briar - F-Droid, CalyxOS repository
Aah yeah bitchat 😎
It doesn't depend on a phone number / gsm networks
Nor does it rely on a central relay
White Noise is very promising
Who cares about "promising" technology?
Fair
Then Simplex is the clear leader, followed by Keychat and Oxchat in terms of readiness right now today
MLS on nostr would be awesome though
Same here, not working yet and waiting for updates
Lo probé con mi comunidad y nos gustó mucho
SimpleX might be the way to go, long term.
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#2 🔥 Community Highlights
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1. revolution.social is with Kara Swisher this time
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2. A pleb is asking a question from the Nostr community
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3. A Real-life proof of the value of Nostr
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4. A meme master is talking about Nostr
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5. A nice new feature of
@blosstr
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6. A Great news from
@Club Orange
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7. Here is a job opportunity for a talented brand designer
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8. The reason @Terry Yiu is on Nostr
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9. Amazing news from @ hodlbod
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10. These Nostr Remote Signers will be shipped soon
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11. This is the thinking every person needs
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12. Great to see the new onboardings like this
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13. A question for Android users
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14. Why @Derek Ross is dedicated so much to Nostr
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15. This is well said
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16. A nice thing to be thought about
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#community_nostr_recap
enjoying the journey 🙂🧡💜
join #nostr ⛵
#archjourney #ajmix #opensea #nature #freedom #nostrgr #ajclip #grownostr #imaginary #sea #archstr #architecture #freedom #bitcoin #plebchain #artstr
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Did you check out? Just curious.
The said they were Beta testing on iphone. @White Noise is great but you can also test @SimpleX Chat on iphone. Signal has been great for years
How is it going these days. I haven't checked out for months.
Regular updates and improvements. Works as advertised. 👍🏻
Again spent 30 minutes of my life on another nerd labyrinth.
With the US pushing hard for worldwide use of stablecoins, it looks like BTC as a UoA is a long way off, no matter how much printing happens. And the fact is, that Monero (along with Litecoin) has a proven history of beating USD inflation (XMR far better than LTC). Layer Bitcoin outranks both of these by a longshot, but it's popular use as a SoV and it's digital gold narative will ultimately reflect our exact current economic system.
@ZEUS and the lightning network are a joke. Compared to Monero (and Litecoin & Bitcoin Cash), on a scale of 1-10 the usability of Zeus is a 3 at best.
Unless you're using Muun, it takes a master's degree to set up these LN wallets. It's a fucking joke.
It's doable, yes. But, how long would it take a newb to make this happen without any mistakes?
I guess you’ve not used @ZEUS in a while. Or you’re blind.
Indeed. Today's interview with the Android maintainer made me change my mind about the possibilities of such an app. I was definitely wrong in my first impressions. Doesn't hurt the change to exercise some humbleness I suppose.
Tried it again just the other week. Phoenix too. It's not that I can't get them too work, it's that there are too many steps and it takes too long. Generally more difficult than opening a bank account!
I know of better, faster ways to use crypto, and lightning is very, very low on the list.
Then, run your own server.
I did. It wasn't enough. And at the time, I could track everybody else using it.
In what way? Seeing the IPs?
IP, time of messages, who is talking to who.
It's a key activity, just like choosing relays on nostr.
Honestly, it's nowhere near the truth.
Lol
Hey. We love factual criticism, but this is misleading.
Who’s talking to whom - it’s what anybody can see in Nostr clients UI, and Nostr relays can see it as well.
SimpleX relays can’t see it since private routing via two independent relays became the default - it’s been more than a year.
And most Nostr clients don’t offer choosing servers as part of onboarding. Neither does Elements afaik 🤷♂️
SimpleX clients currently have 2 preconfigured operators and let users choose which to use during the onboarding. There are many 100s, maybe 1000s servers in SimpleX network - that you don’t see the list is a feature.
It's not misleading. I was running the version before that routing became a thing. Any person running your server could track everything. That made me give up the entire protocol at the time.
one of the first users here, currently testing it with my brother.
i see the long term vision you are aiming to achieve.
keep up the good work.
lnbc87330n1p5fpfzcpp52ye98r2ryszypfr8hsgc7sj7xgamya8vxwck78hrsvl3dczanxnsdp82pshjgr5dusyymrfde4jq4mpd3kx2apq24ek2uscqzpuxqrwzqsp559q5jf6x8j07075jpvx6wut3tp0hgae5xcezcm284u4vepkrjf8q9qxpqysgqe9a7ah8lycxe3zal52g9f80ynzx5x9ga0alvgm978jg3rd3p36npnjzf90c45l9e7rmk96jezspt8m2eqzlqpvtwah9lqz6av5sf6xqplujzxh
Will whitenoise have push notification ability soon? 🤞
briar, element, (conversations, Cwtch > these two are pretty good) molly client for signal. BTW get a google pixel phone and stick graphene OS on it too. Good luck buddy glad to see you back
heads-up: we looked for a lightning address on your profile but could not find one... u can get a free one at 
... and then reply back to this comment so we can zap you.
Rizful: Lightning Services
Free Lightning vaults, and instant, disposable Lightning Nodes.
not sure about apps but chatting with humans at a bar is pretty decentralized
hello
hello
Oh man Ross that means you haven't been seeing my notes! I'll recommend a bunch of decentralized stuff but for starters start with your own self hosted archive.
GitHub
GitHub - ArchiveBox/ArchiveBox: 🗃 Open source self-hosted web archiving. Takes URLs/browser history/bookmarks/Pocket/Pinboard/etc., saves HTML, JS, PDFs, media, and more...
🗃 Open source self-hosted web archiving. Takes URLs/browser history/bookmarks/Pocket/Pinboard/etc., saves HTML, JS, PDFs, media, and more... - A...
👆 This.
What about 0xchat?
Thank you for your feedback @npub150rq...cee0 . Please feel free to reach out to me privately through the SimpleX app using the link below for a quick conversation.
SimpleX Chat - Contact
But you are an imposter, a fake npub trying to use the same name and same picture as the real original. Gtfo
Tu eras el de silk road ¿no?
SimpleX first option.
White noise
Keet