Replies (72)
"test this app and report all bugs. make no mistakes"
I can do all three! Where do I sign up?
It's a completely stupid situation, because programmers are simultaneously bad at tests and (in theory) much more expensive, so telling them to perform tests like that is a waste on every level.
Joel Spolsky warned about that 16 years ago:
Joel on Software
Why testers?
My sister got her kids a little puppy, and they’ve been trying to train it. To live with a dog in the house, you need to teach it not to jump on ...
I’m ready 👍
I do that for free 🤷
Fully agree with you, but CTOs see it otherwise, why I have to invest in 2 engineers if 1 can do both? And here we are back to your point..
What’s wrong with AI performing these tasks?
i got a friend for that, and they're good at it, testing everything to break it as a user, 'fucky-wucky why the hell not and press all the buttons' kind of tests, and tells me what broke and tells me their annoyances as a user very raw, and sometimes i watch them as they go through and see where the 'hiccups' are.
I don't believe AI can perform these tasks but I would be happy to be proven wrong.
Simple, reliable testing is key, just like simple, reliable nutrition - meat heals.
Agreed! While it’s totally awesome to get people to install the app and use it. It’s even better to get feedback. Without feedback you can’t course correct. You can’t improve, you can’t have a clear direction on what your users actually desire.
We have some really novel features within the app that we hope people will gravitate towards, but without them telling us that they use it or don’t, it’s kinda hard to know what direction to actually go
Nostrvault.app lol
Every piece of software should go through such a process. It seems to me that developers and users have drifted very far apart linguistically. Most of the time, the average person can't even see what it's for. And the information about how and why doesn't reach them at all. There used to be a profession called "Diplom-Dokumentar" (graduate documentalist). They specialized in this. But such people are hard to find.
I am testing a similar idea in the next weeks.
So far I have an adversary reviewer, that works better than a simple reviewer, and complains the hell out of the code. 😂
Every single nostr user feels insulted 🤣🤣🤣
non-developer here...i'm testing Conduit Market (now) and I'm testing and seeing lots of things I want to report stuff. Seems a nice things.
Most people (talking for the majority) don't use Github/Gitlab/Git (I can but it's annoying) to open an issue, so...it would be nice to have something.
Nak agent 😅
Sabe quando nostr vai melhorar 200%?
Quando os devs entregarem produto finalizado.
That's exactly what I've been doing at
@Satlantis: Social Events for the past 2 years 🤕🥲😅 In my case it wasn't just installing and clicking buttons, but also using the app heavily to run my
@Barcelona Bitcoin Hub community, as well as monitoring hundreds of other communities in Satlantis.
People think that anyone can create a Nostr product and launch it, and yes, they can, but that's just one step to become a successful product in the market.
So, I agree with you, every Nostr project should hire a "Product Champion", that's how I like to call this role, a person that needs that product for himself and who will go the extra mile to make sure the product is perfect.
This isn't a question of testing the code; it's a question of testing the behavior.
I did that, on here, for about a year. The effort netted me about 250 sats and a lot of hate.
Now, I only test our own stuff.
This resonates deeply. The irony of AI generating more code than ever while testing becomes an afterthought isn't lost on anyone watching the ecosystem.
What's interesting is that this non-programmer who clicks buttons and reports bugs role maps perfectly onto what early adopters naturally do — except nobody structures or incentivizes it. In open source this happens through GitHub issues, but Nostr apps lack that feedback layer entirely.
Maybe the gap isn't hiring QA — it's building the feedback loop directly into clients. A report friction button that generates a structured event, not a Discord message that gets lost.
The Nostr ecosystem needs its own culture of dogfooding. Not because it's noble, but because nobody else will do it for us.
We need AI agents to do QA things. 😂
View quoted note →I find it hard enough to work out what the apps are even for! There is often such a mismatch in language and communication.
I think
@idsera,
@Flowey, and
@chrizzz, among others, are always willing to test things and report bugs. A big part of Jumble's stability comes from their feedback and bug reports.
kkkkkk, que ironia. Falou o cara que usa o app mais bugado de todos. rs.
Que coisa né
@𝚋𝚊𝚝𝚜𝚒𝚚 @Flowey, muito engraçado.
I am looking for a job and have experience doing this. Check out my resume. Welcoming connections and being of service.
If devs could create proper usage documentation for their project, that would be a big help too.
Contact me
Last time i asked for bitcoin only jobs I had to hear a mountain of fluff and BS including operating through the NOISE app, which frankly is crap. Value for value only.
Usertesting.com as a life saver for companies back in the day.
View quoted note →Cite um. Não tem. E do jumble? Vários.
O amethyst provoca bugs até em quem não usa ele. Único cliente que causa bugs indiretamente.
No caso, no jumble isto não é possível. Já que não tem nada.
AI cannot perform these tasks because there is a hardware component necessary for this piece
I meant an agentic team. I have 3+ teams, only one for coding.
Because LLM's don't "use" software like humans do.
LLM's aren't trying to move thumbs around on a touchscreen screen, or push a mouse to click things. LLM's don't get annoyed when they have to wait ~30 seconds for something to load. LLM's don't have good aesthetic sense to tell when a font selection doesn't work, or a UI is too crowded / buggy. LLM's can't tell when an icon is too small to be seen.
A "bug" isn't "you've chosen the wrong backend and the page takes 30 seconds to load. It's not "your feed is too visually cluttered", or "it's awkward to use mouse wheel to scroll because you have to hover over a certain area etc etc"
Humans use computer programs, not LLM's.
does it pay?
@jb55 somewhere you can finally put in a good word.
💯
I tell you what I found?
several clients, just by starting the section, modify your account, the appearance and the relays you use.
several Android apps are stopping responding to signatories, causing one to have to insert their private key more into the app, and several clients, by not caching the previous pages you visit, there comes a point where they freeze or stop working
One step back on all our decentralised stack - where do we report bugs? And do forums?
Its so heterogeneous...
QubesOS, SuiteCRM, and PrivacyGuides have nice forums.
Many other projects like Xen, the Kernel, and Debian have mailing lists which... Are good, but I think forums are better.
Stack overflow died.
Arch Linux and Gentoo Linux have/had wikis.
Debian have governance - nice, but not the best solution...
And when it comes to bug reporting - does it have to be in the GitHub repo?!??
I think nostr is fun when using in the smartphone GrapheneOS on an app... Maybe I am using it wrong... But just put a menu next to messages and settings and this and that to report a bug or something... That could get automatically the versions and enrich with some info... Would that be good UX?
@primal @Wisp @AmethystI feel there is a good cohort of testers.
The real problem is that nothing gets fixed 😂
I had a fairly decent test with farming this out using some zapvertisements. Why 1 QA engineer when you can have the population?
If you know how to be thorough you should be directing your agent to test everything as you build it. Not just that the feature ostensibly appears to work, but you should be predicting and testing most edge cases. It requires having a an imaginative mind to see potential failure points in systems. You have to be your own hacker and try to break your app.
Devs here don’t want user feedback. They want accolades and grant money.
Some of my bug reports have celebrated multiple birthdays! 🎂
I would be keen for that.
I'm a software tester professionally. I agree with you 100%. If someone would take your idea seriously and actually fund it, I would be happy to work on it full time.
Consider applying for an OpenSats grant.
(This is valid for anyone else who thinks they can do this too.)
I think building off Nostrapps could also help.. basically having a review and rating system for the apps listed, as well as it being kept up to date. This would help both consumers and developers
Crowd sourced app testing with zap payments for valid bug reports? #businessidea
I would love to see a system where I could use these apps, report issues and get paid for valid ones.
No issues from "unknown" npubs. I could build a reputation as a good QA. And I could make money doing what I already love.
Nostr would be probably be a whole lot better if there were some economic models in place to fuel incentives.
View quoted note →You can create an AI agent tool set with Skills, Emulators, etc
zapbugathon?
Testing only works if developers ask about it, showing some interest, otherwise it's a huge waste of time. I often tried to proactively share suggestions, but they have often been ignored.
The majority of developers prefer to solve "big problems" and make announcements about new features, not get bogged down in tedious details. This off course is lethal for an app that aims to be used by a lot of people.
The exception is when many users complain about the same thing, but this assumes that the app has some recognized value and it is widely used, that is rare.
In any case, there are many crowd testing platforms designed specifically with this goal in mind.
I'm not a LLMs fan at all, but you are wrong in the majority of what you are saying. LLMs have a great visual analysis capabilities, can play with applications and have huge knowledge about performances, usability and accessibility indicators.
They only have some limits in simulating inaccurate or multiple touch interactions.
I am mentioned yesterday about the VLM visual language model , having difficulties to distinguished between 3 fake apple with 17 apples in the box .
I often feel like there is so much to report that it’s best to keep it cool and only complain about critical issues, to not annoy devs too much.
Here’s my dilemma: I want to see some cool feature we have discussed implemented (let’s say the live activity to keep the relay running in background) but I’m also personally anal about following the platform UX standards standards so I kind of censor myself from complaining about the navigation being switched from liquid glass to a lookalike in the last couple of builds, because I think that way you will have less “noise” and work on that “backend” feature.
I don’t know if this is good or bad now that I think about it.
Because then you would need massive amounts of telemetry, coming from a sizeable user base and even then you can end up with blind spots, just look at the downhill Windows has gone through ever since Microsoft decided to give QA the middle finger.
The reply and threads structure on Nostr sucks so much that I personally hate NIP-10 😭😭
fiatjaf
I think Nostr would be probably 200% better if we had someone to test apps reliably.
I'm not talking about a "QA engineer" whatever, just someone that isn't a programmer but can install things, click buttons and report bugs.
I have the impression that this is a role that died in the industry of software development, but it is much needed now, and much more in the age of AI code.
View quoted note →
Devs underestimate the power of a humble feedback button in app.
I can press button, and I am also tech retarded. Here when needed 😁🤙🏼
The agent has no concept of accessibility, ergonomics or just UX in general.
It will check if the button works but it won’t complain about the button being hard to reach on the screen or behind 4 submenus which could be simplified or whatever.
So whatever happened to the roles of a QA Tester and a Technical Writer?
