Replies (68)
wallet of satoshi, BTCPay Server and other apps have a thing called POS where the merchant types in the price. The tools are already there, The lady just needs someone to teach her how to use them
>I paid for a meal with Bitcoin recently.
That's blasphemy from you!
>WoS WR code glued to wall
That's not even Bitcoin !
>Can't we make it better?
Yes, they should be teach how to use @LNbits and you know that very well being a LNbits contributor...
Most of the videos of Bitcoin being used in commerce in backwater places I see involve a phone with a shitty wallet interface in it.
This setup is kinda bad as it has way too many requirements:
- a phone
- internet access for the receiver
- internet access to the payer
- a setup that is casual enough for the receiver to take his own phone out of his pocket and type numbers in it
- the guy with the phone must also be the owner of the shop and mix his finances with those of the shop
The last one is the most absurd to me.
If we assume everybody has a phone, though, I don't see why there couldn't exist an app that worked offline where every employee of a small business could type a number and generate a QR code that the payer scans and gets the amount already converted in his wallet to pay.
Or, if we assume the receiver will have internet, we can skip that part and let the employee generate an invoice that will be paid but the money will go to the shop's wallet, not to the employee.
These are basic things, so maybe they do exist and I'm just uninformed. I would do these apps myself if I could, but it doesn't really help if they "exist" but the people in the trenches evangelizing Bitcoin to commerce aren't aware of them.
and you know what is this device...
🎯
A very cheap offline device that every humble merchant could easily acquire would be ideal.
I'm sure
@Ben Arc will do something and save the day here.
there are many options available to her, but in the end anything short of a full wallet requires her to trust you. in the end she probably wasn't bothered as much as you were
you can lead people to bitcoin, but you can't make them stop trusting people
They do exist. I believe ideally people evangelizing should give these solutions + a simple phone setup explaining the latter is equivalent to cash you declare or you don’t
so fix it then you fixed social media didnt you you can obviously fix paying with statecoin
@LNbits has great cheap devices for exactly this.
hey man, thanks for sharing. i actually just built the answer to this. it is a noncustodial POS built on bitcoin, lightning, and nostr. it's called Plaza BTC. it's live on the ios app store right now. android version coming soon. hardware terminal coming soon.
with the Plaza BTC app it's simple. you download the app and you're in customer mode. you see a map of the world around you and you could businesses around that accept bitcoin. this is customer mode and you could sign in with your Npub or create a new one on the app as customer. it works like the yelp app. you could find bitcoin businesses around you and pay from the app if you connect your wallet, if you wanted to. you could also save your favorite bitcoin businesses to your favorites list. you also have a history of purchases you made if you connected your wallet and paid the merchant in person.
in the settings tab, you could become a merchant and enter merchant mode where you'll find a full point of sale, where you could charge customers. you could also create a catalog of items and customize it too. that way you just press a button for "coffee" and then "medium" or "large" and "extra shot" and then you could give the customer the option to tip you. and then lastly, you scan a qr code or tap to pay. the customer then sees a final qr code at the success screen which is their receipt. you also have a copy of this in your sales tab on the app in merchant mode. there is also an analytics tab. as a merchant, you could just sign in with your npub or create a new one, publish your location on the Plaza Map, which is also connected with BTC Map. You could also connect your lightning wallet, connect your wallet via NWC, or self host.
This is the first sovereign and noncustodial Bitcoin/lightning POS. There are zero fees forever. This is not a promotional run like Square where they are custodial and have zero fees until the end of this year.
Let me know what you think and what you would like to see and I will work on it.
Android app coming soon. Physical hardware terminal coming soon.
@fiatjafI don’t know what system Steak N Shake uses, but looking there might be some help.
@fiatjaf @Ben Arc my physical hardware terminal will work offliine and accept cashu. my dream is for this to be used in rural areas. whether online or offline. with lightning or with cashu. lets collaborate
A little tablet displaying a #takemysats shop page and we are half way there. Instant POS?
That purchase you made is required to be reported to the IRS as a capital gain or loss. That to me is the reason we have limited Bitcoin commerce adoption. We need a de minimus tax exemption.
@MartyBentNumo pos ux is quality 👌 get that onto real Lightning and you're onto something 👏
i create the ios app that does this too. It’s called Plaza BTC.
Android app coming soon. Hardware terminal coming soon.
It’s all zero fees forever and noncustodial. It’s the first of its kind.
I created the best version of this. So far it is an ios app. android app coming soon. hardware terminal coming soon.
It’s called Plaza BTC on the ios app store
Nice mate look forward to the Android
The solutions are all so disjointed. To me the static QR code to a custodial wallet is simple, and super low friction. If we want inroads to the hearts and minds of business owners then solutions need to maintain that spirit.
What spark is doing with visa network is interesting.
I think ot could be done easy by using btcpay server .. a simple calculator where to input the dollars paycheck and it will convert to satoshi on a their LN wallet .. this can be run by a browser on a cellphone
WoS is not bitcoin?
Nope. Is a sidechain disguised in a custodial crap
Eu sei que a ZEUS tem um PoS no app que dá pra cadastrar produtos. Blink também da e é custodia delegada.
> so many years have passed and I barely hear about these kinds of issues
Same reason that you barely hear about issues with Nostr. Zero real-world adoption. 100% developer userbase.
How can you tell? How cab I know? Especially lighting is such a black box to me.
Is a "black box" because you are listening to wrong people instead of reading my guides:
DarthCoin Guides
DarthCoin Guides
Bitcoin and Lightning guides
Ok. Will read.
You’re not required to report a loss.
This is an amazing solution! I love seeing Cashu-related technology prevail as an opt-out from fiat rails
Though not all normies have Android phones or access to Google Play /
@Zapstore services so that’s already a barrier for some
Blink offers a web POS that every employee can use to let customers pay, without being able to touch the funds.
It's quite easy to build something like that for any wallet that has a LN address.
> Set a threshold amount. Once your ecash balance reaches it, funds automatically transfer to your Lightning address.
Once your Layer 3 amount reaches it, funds automatically transfer to your Layer 2 address? Does a business ever touch Layer 1 bitcoin?
You know that WoS has a self custody mode right?
did you fall into your head?
That self-custody is fake, is not bitcoin, is a fucking lame sidechain that soon will be hit by the KYC hammer...
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED
I've paid for chips at a bitcoin event in Europe using a PoS terminal that natively supports BTC.
There's a British company called Musqet that builds this sort of thing but I've never seen one in the wild, the one used at said event was made someone else.
I saw lnbits pos video a few days ago I'm sure this exists but isn't the ideal solution still a software pos that uses merchant account to receive.
Which is again possible with lnbits and always have been.
We could call that device something simple, like Square. Or to get paid in BTC, we could have them use something called like, BTCPay.
Or they could use Zaprite.
This place just didn't bother. Not for nothing, the cost of overhead, either in terms of subscription, processing, or just set up, are a friction point. If they're not paid enough, trusting you was likely less costly, even if you were dishonest, than the cost of set up.
Just like people don't worry about cold storage or multisig for 100 sats and even use Cashu, most businesses are going to decide what to use based on their use case. Maybe we could make it even easier but at some point there is some overhead to converting fiat prices on the fly. I'm actually happier that there's a good chance using WoS that they're just not participating in the government robbery scheme...
Wallet of Satoshi has a built in point of sale interface.
Which place has this in Würzburg?
But does the business owner know about this/need to spend the time to import all their items?
What about a nostr protocol for POS terminals that makes items fungible between apps?
As a business owner I sure as heck only want to input my items and their details one time, and manage them from one place.
Numo is great, but lacks on-chain Bitcoin and Monero support.
We alienated the people interested in the problems of grassroots Bitcoin adoption in 2016
you check out numo?
www.numopay.org
I love the idea of having just a QR code on the wall, it would mean there was no state to report all sales/conversion etc to. If you really wanted as the shop owner you could just watch for the pending tx on mempool.space for a few seconds and resolve any issues.
@bitrequest - Accept crypto anywhere , and
Bitcoin Point-of-Sale Device – Bitcoinize POS Machine
Bitcoinize POS are tools that I think are interesting in this regard.
Of course there are many other options, and choices for POS tools.
I also think the Cash App/square approach is good too.
I used to run a website that showed people how to accept Bitcoin payments but unfortunately it didn’t get any traction.
Depends where you are as to what’s available. Square is now the best solution for most small businesses where it’s available. A decentralized option would be good, but also probably not user friendly which would alienate most businesses from using it in the first place, so what’s the point? 😂🤷♂️
for a self-custodial solution, it would be easy to build something around
@BTCPay ServerI have seen places using these with ZEUS, I don’t it’s unreasonable, sure the UX could be better but that’s mostly on the ZEUS side, we don’t need to invent another hardware.
It exists, but unless it comes from a big corp, people don't trust it, and if it does, then it costs a subscription fee.
For those who have a leap of faith, paper is much cheaper and more accessible than a 3d printed esp32 computer and a lightning node running somewhere remotely.
Fyi, I'm talking about LNbits and their offline payment tool that lets you type a number in sats, generates a QR code, and when you pay it, you get a 6 digit code which the device will also know and if they match, the payment was done.
All offline. The payment happened elsewhere, the mini device just hooked you up and used a technology similar to one time passwords to help the merchant verify payment without going to the server.
Where is the issue exactly?
People can pay for their services. When a merchant sees, that people cheat on them, they will may search a solution.
But is it probable, that merchants should be cheated oftenly? I doupt it. Like in every supermarket it is possible to steal things.
But everyone knows that it is illegal and some percentage of stolen goods will be not discovered. This is not a problem for the supermarkets to sustain. Zero failure opportunity is not needed for an economy to work. It just should not fail too much.
Hey brother
@fiatjaf we are working our assess of here trying to get noticed and have built an App where you can earn Bitcoin , please repost the trending post and have a look at our feed ,
BitTasker
Hey everyone The BitTasker App is now available from the Google Play Store for Android Users Click the below link to download , creat...
We need all the help we can get to make this work as launched recently in El Salvador
#mustdeploy
Yes
Looks like a scam to me.
Also next time please use direct references instead of links to a particular client's URL.
Do you mean like the Coinkite POS terminals? Yeah... those were cool.
Wow really crushed to hear that but am grateful for the engagement even though negative but would like to learn why it looks like a scam as we are a legitimate company based in Elsalvador ?
You will see a lot more activity on our Nostr feed
BitTasker.com
Photo of BitTasker CEO
@jonbyrnebtc in El Salvador with Max Keiser
@Stacy Herbert
Technically true, but you know what I’m getting at. Taxes kill mass bitcoin commerce adoption.
There actually is no problem. This system "just works"
I do know what you mean and I know I’m in the minority here, but I really don’t think this is an important issue. This is asking for special treatment. Bitcoin doesn’t need special treatment to succeed.
well, if you owned the restaurant, what is in it for you to be avant guarde about this? teaching a bunch of employees about a new thing that isn't a thing yet. it is hard enough to stay in biz as it is w/ health inspectors, online reviews, fickle clients etc. CEOs don't have time for this crap
Fiatmart
