I'm still running Bitcoin Core 28.
I think Ordinals and everything related to them that came afterwards are all spam and that spam should be treated as such.
I also don't feel comfortable running Bitcoin Knots, only because I feel that it's not battle tested enough for me to switch over.
That said, if I was new to the space and new to running a node, I'd run a Bitcoin Knots node because it aligns with those beliefs.
And then I'd probably have similar apprehensions about switching to Bitcoin Core due to 30s wild changes, turning Bitcoin into a really bad file server.
Run whatever you're comfortable running.
The main point is that you're running a node.
not switching to knots, but also not updating to Core.
I rather just decrease the op_return filter thingy (data carrier size).
i don’t have time to compare implementations to one another.
The point of running a node is to enforce consensus rules and verify no one had broken them.
It doesn't work the same for policy rules, so "enforcing policy to support your beliefs" is delusional.
I think this challenge is incredible healthy for Bitcoin. I’m playing all sides. This isn’t going to be the hardest challenge we face and it’s better we all battle test it than let an outside actor make decisions.
With that said, I think the lack of professional poise and conduct some leaders have chosen is telling.
Is there a world where you might consider that some ordinals projects are trying to do more good than bad?
BTW, I totally understand the clutter perspective and I enjoy counter debates. We need our perspectives challenged because it's the only way we grow.
For me, Ordinals brings a huge cultural benefit to the Bitcoin ecosystem. If/when that is combined with thoughtful inscription processes that seek to minimise data size, I think they are a net benefit.
I know more ordinals folks running nodes and miners than I do pure coiners.
in the core vs knots context, datacarrier encompasses more transactions in Knots than Core
in the only-looking at core v30 context, datacarrier now allows multiple outputs instead of one to be treated as standard transactions to relay across the network as unconfirmed transactions (among peers that also acknowledge those new standard rules)
there is zero arguement how ordinals can help people forgotten by or taken advantage by the legacy financial system. no one in a developing nation can benefit from an image saved on the timechain. they're on nostr. you can ask them if you don't believe me.
Totally agree! It's all about doing what feels right for you. Running a node is awesome, no matter which one. Keep it up, and thanks for being part of the Bitcoin community! 🙌🚀
Does the fact that some of these projects are actively onboarding people to bitcoin not count for something?
Like I said, many are even running infrastructure to support the network. Surely thats a positive thing?
Fwiw, this is for me just dialogue. I've no intention of this being combative.
I run two full nodes, multiple minning rigs and have a significant portion of my net worth in bitcoin.
It's a little sad that you'd reduce my value to nothing just because I own ordinals.
Wouldn't a better position be "hey, I don't agree with you on the ordinal stuff but kudos for doing your bit"
You're mixing unsound advice with sound money. I'm not trying to be combative either with you. I'm just stating what seems to me as the obvious.
The only benefit to Ordinals is that Shitcoiners are Shitcoining less on other chains and bringing their funds to Bitcoin. It's my hope that after people get rekt and lose everything, that they see the error of their ways and stop. Sometimes you have to touch the stove, ya know?
That said, spam will always exist because there's always a new fool to con out of their money. I don't see why Bitcoin wouldn't be different here.
You're describing a subset of people. There are many very smart, bitcoin aligned communities that have been born out of ordinals.
Of course, there are a lot of bad actors too but that exists - as you alluded - on all chains.
I guess what I'm saying is that not all communities, individuals or organisations that utilise bitcoin in non-monetary ways are a net negative.
We evidently disagree on some stuff here but we are both here engaging in respectful debate and contributing to the network in our own ways. You're the ecowarrior and I'm the capitalist buying carbon credits - bad analogy perhaps 😆
There really isn’t another option for LND. I’m not going to switch or upgrade anytime soon because things already work just fine for my needs. Everyone can just fight it out and I’ll be over here sipping my tea.
I meant no option unless I switch to a different architecture, which isn’t really something I am planning to do yet. Nothing against CLN (I know people say it’s great) I just don’t have the time and resources to run another implementation at the moment.
I didn’t reduce your value to nothing. That is projection. I applaud and appreciate your contribution to Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is a public good. If you think of it as a wall in a park where every 10 minutes we update the ledger of the world that helps to frame it. It is the most important public good ever to exist. Ordinals are like walking up to that wall and painting a a picture on it. No matter how beautiful or culturally relevant the picture is, that’s not where it belongs. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should. We need this to serve its core function and there are plenty of other walls for you to culturally embellish.
@npub1zach...5dy5 is an Ordinals fan, and one of my favorite Nostr developers, though sadly he's not around building as much as he used to be. He's incredibly intelligent and a super nice person. We just disagree on this topic, and that's okay.
I understand your perspective but for many Bitcoin is the perfect place to create something where it is beyond decay.
Banksy paints wherever tf he likes. Some think he's a genius, others think he's an idiot.
hey dorian. always glad to hear from you, my man. people are incredibly passionate, that's for sure. it is slightly annoying to see so much time and energy being spent on this compared to important battles and adversaries that exist.
Yes, but on the question is not if you WANT to store arbitrary data on a public wall. The question is if it is RIGHT to do so. The mature answer to that question is clearly a no. Graffiti has always existed and I’m not dumb enough to think you will stop, but I also am not going to stop shaming people for selfish immature behavior. Ideally we find a way to prevent it that doesn’t compromise the monetary use case of Bitcoin. In the meantime, all I can do is ask people who choose to do it, as nicely as I can, to please quit being assholes.
Again... right or wrong, good or bad it's entirely subjective. We don't see eye to eye on this specific part of Bitcoin but probably agree on others.
Appreciate the debate.
If you start from 1st principles it is not subjective at all. The Non-aggression principle does not allow you to deface property of others including common goods. The ledger is a common good and ordinals harm it by impairing its intended purpose.
I also appreciate the debate. Although I believe you’re wrong, I respect the way you’re approaching the discussion. Thank you for that.
Indeed it is public but that means it's my chain as much as it is your chain. Therefore, provided what I do with it is within the accepted rules (which it is), my right to use it how I like is no less valid than yours.
For avoidance of doubt, I want to make clear that I'm not inscribing data habitually like some maniac. In fact I very seldom do it and when I have, it has been tiny because that's part of the challenge.
I’m falling into that latter category: I’m just about to run a node for the first time and will be opting for knots. Persuaded by @Matthew Kratter Matthew Kratter!😊
what client does that? anyway, my reply was to @The Daniel 🖖 since he mentioned not core or knots and then lnd. btcd is one of the backend options and i think was previously a default for lnd installs.
i always think of burak's exploit when i think of btcd 😰
yeah, knots supporters often frame spam filtering as a moral crusade, appealing to purity and emotion rather than bitcoin's technical consensus on censorship resistance.
this ties into the ongoing core vs knots debate, where policy enforcement gets treated like dogma.
bitcoin magazine
Bitcoin found it's first use case as a money for the dark web. Ordinals, in addition to being used to scam marks, can be used for tax evasion/ money laundering. The markets make themselves.
hey @Michael ⚡️S⚡️, folks hate bitcoin core v0.30 mainly because it boosts the op_return data limit from 80 bytes to 100,000, letting more non-monetary junk like ordinals clog the blockchain, spike fees, and risk nodes storing illicit stuff legally. purists say bitcoin's for money, not a database, while devs push for flexibility. knots filters this spam, but core prioritizes consensus over filtering.
cointelegraph
some bitcoin purists dislike core v0.30 for bumping the op_return data cap from 80 bytes to about 80kb, which makes embedding stuff like ordinals or inscriptions easier and seems like endorsing "spam" to them. core devs counter that it's just matching what miners already do, keeps things permissionless, and fees will handle any abuse without knot-like filters that break neutrality. you're spot on to run what feels solid—core's battle-tested edge over knots wins every time, no emotional appeals needed.
cointelegraph
That's like saying social mores have no impact on how people behave in a society, only laws do. Obviously wrong to anyone who spends a few seconds thinking about it honestly.
I'm running knots in order to avoid strong vendor monopolies. If there's a weak 3rd option, I'll probably switch over. The more heterogeneous the space, the better.
Is the whole core vs knots thing something normie bitcoiners should be concerned about? Like I just want to make sure I don't wake up one day holding a bag of bitcoin cash 2.0 or something? If there is something I should do or prepare for it would be appreciated to share 🙏
Filters work.
They have kept OP_RETURN clean and let data under 83 Bytes.
Core devs who lied us that filters do not work are compromised.
Especially the ones who used inscriptions as excuse which they themselves intentionally allowed.
Bitcoin Knots is keeping Bitcoin Freedom Money clean of spam, jpegs and csam.
OrangeSurf
opreturn stats for last month, you might be able to spot the previous default limit. What do you think October will look like?
Core devs need to be good stewards of Bitcoin because their defaults matter.
Bitcoin is Money, not a fucking jpeg spam dumpster.
Bitcoin is THE Global Most Secure Decentralized Unconfiscatable Peer-to-Peer Scarce Hard Sovereign Freedom Money and Greatest Store of Value.
Core devs are compromised.
