Replies (121)
Shouldn't you just add the Primal relay wss://relay.primal.net ? Problem solved
#amethyst or death
That's the thing I do have, and also used many times the "broadcast" button, the icon of primal relay would even show. Then I open Primal and notification or note isn't there.
I don't get it. Same thing with #wisp sometimes. Probably wisp is the more precise and the one that better and earlier shows all. I believe
@utxo the webmaster 🧑💻 did a great job with that and the notification section
Pretty sure you see everything on Amethyst that people post/do on Primal.
Still my first options ans go to.. was my forst mobile and always most used.
I love having all the options in my hands.. when/if they'll introduce spark wallet probably will use it even more.
I don't zap with it as I never liked the NWC thing.. just personal preference.
True to be fair is more the opposite.. 🤙🏼💜
Something I see on Primal sometimes and not on amethyst are notifications of notes from muted npubs 😅 (not a bug)
Funnt enough now I opened primal and I can see your comment on my note, but not the note itself or all other comments or their notifications.
Probably because you wrote down the relay
I don't think it has anything to do with me mentioning it in my note, but me having it as a relay probably helps it being seen on the Primal client
How many different #nostr feeds your npub has.. ?
View quoted note →
View quoted note →many of my replies from Amethyst don't seem to show up on Primal
Nope. Problem still persists.
Can attest, same experience. Faced the same thing when trialing out Wisp too.
Wisp is probably the more precise in that..
Just call it for what it is… Primal’s caching server.
@jb55 has been calling it out for years
I would if I knew what I was talking about.. I am not will. Probably his son knows much more about how nostr technically works than me 😅.
Does Wisp use the same system as Primal?
No, I don’t believe so although
@The Daniel 🖖 might know. Most Nostr clients use relay subscriptions while primal uses a caching server which acts as an intermediary between Nostr relays and the client.
Thanks for explanation 🤙🏼
True, but what is preciseness is the question. Who determines seeing the one post of someone I don't follow, over another post of someone else I don't follow, is the more precise approach.
Plus, Wisp has removed their Tor installation and Primal throttles reach, Amythest hasn't had an update in like forever. They're all equally good or bad tbh.
I see your point.
But here was even on a higher level as I couldn't see my own notes on my own profile feed for hrs.
Another problem is when someone do see your post and comments or zaps it and you don't receive any notes or notifications and the result is that noub feels ignored.. that's a massive backlash.
#growNostr
their caching server isn’t nostr, so primal technically isn’t even a nostr client. It’s a proprietary platform that sources data from nostr. Their app only reads from this server, They can censor people (which they’ve done multiple times) and users can’t add additional relays to get around it.
I have been saying this for years and everytime i do i get attacked by ten31 investors and bitcoin influencer circlejerkers who fund primal and who are also on the board of opensats (scammer odell, neighbour-of-miljan nvk who ten31 also invested in and who are all friends and also fucks over seedsigner through opensats so that only their buddies win, etc).
Primal investors and bitcoin influencers hate when i point this out and claim just jealous of primal even though i dont bitch about any other nostr client.
I think primal is the biggest existential risk to nostr, since it is the most popular nostr app and it risks ruining nostr’s entire reputation once they start censoring more people and if their client starts crashing/disappears. people will think nostr is censored, centralized, and unreliable.
I will continue to point this out because its crazy to me people still don’t know this and push unsuspecting noobs to it.
“NOSTP”
100% agree.
This is also my experience when criticising Bitcoiners from a privacy/fungibility/anonymity perspective that naturally aligns with Monero.
Same experience! 💜
Wisp uses the outbox model, not a caching server. Relays are definitely not my area of expertise, and the guy capable of explaining that better than me just wrecked his car and is taking a vacation this weekend, so don’t bother him today.
I believe
@phil made this, ages ago, and it makes a good visual. The Primal caching server controls everything that shows up on their app.
Nope. That's what outbound relay discovery is for.
nooo that sucks. sorry to hear it
Nope.. not that simple at least.
Primal acts completely different by most clients and that's what I am trying to pointing out..
View quoted note →i think the analogy between using nostr relays and a caching server is closer to using bitcoin vs having bitcoin exposure through something like mstr or an etf. you can still have privacy on bitcoin.
Yes.. or maximum "having" it on exchanges.. until the day "sorry you can't withdraw.."
It sucks 🥲😅🫂
People should really try non primal clients. Very different experience - Wisp, Amethyst, Jumble, etc. I haven't tried Damus yet.
Amethyst is maximum Nostr.
Primal is maximum not Nostr.
Every other client falls into a gradient of those two.
at first I did use primal, but once I started trying other clients, now I feel that primal is very limited with what you can do, because every time I tried to change servers, I always put the primal servers back as the main ones, removing the others that I had put.
apart from the fact that I did see that it is very selective, because I have seen that publications that I made do not appear in that place.
I do, I usually mention multiple different options on twitter... I think the word "nostr" is muted on twitter though, so I use "n-word social network"...
🤣
well, if you want people to think that primal is the only page based on NOSTR, you need to make an effort to show them the other clients that exist.
Genius.. BASED.
Interesting take. I use primal and it simply works for what I use it for. I’m under no impression that it is censorship proof or that Nostr is immune from censorship or data harvesting etc.
Honestly seems like Nostr usage js trending downward significantly.
Also genuinely curious if you could cite any of the examples of censorship?
I don’t mind censoring some things such as porn, anything illegal, people hurting themselves etc. I’m not here to see that stuff. but if there is a single case of free speech being censored I’ll delete the app and leave primal right now.
Try NoorNote 😉 Trust me
They suspended
@ralf a while back. Still don’t know why.
its been well documented as many people have lived through it. onyx, ralf, semisol, and now fuckstr. they have also been caught logging searches by pubkey. it honestly looks like an op at this point.
Haha wow. Considering Space X owns all that BTC, I wonder why that would be censored? Hmm…
Yikes scammer Odell is a bit harsh no?
no he's a complete fake personna
he's only motivation is for him, his portfolio companies, and his friends to make money. this freedom fighter personna is complete bullshit since he supports clients that censor people. its literally his fiduciary duty to do so.
Respect.
Wisp uses the opposite system - outbox model. That means we automatically connect to all the relays the people you follow use to build your feed. This is the most decentralized and censorship resistant way to implement nostr in a client.
Notes and
Other
Stuff
Transmitted
by
Primoooooooool
Correct.
Jews or Jew-lovers.
It is time for the honorable American plebs to exterminate both noxious life forms.
You might be right with all.. but the last npub example is just an asshole that has been muted from normal as his behaviour is completely childish and retarded.
😉 Loading loading ......Try again 🫂
Cheers for bringing this to my attention, as I've been compiling an Online Privacy Guide for beginners and had Primal in my Nostr section. Swapped out for Amethyst now ✌️
Will, I commend you for speaking up…
I’ve never used primal, I’ve always been happy with Damus, though my lady has used it on Android but also used amethyst and others. Strange how she stopped using nostr… but I’m still here.
Checking into this. Thanks for all your work.
😂👋🫂 love ❤️
Thanks for these insights, I’m currently using primal bc it’s the only one that I can easily figure out how to post and reply. I still can’t figure out how to post on Damus, I’ll have to literally watch one of my friends do it to figure it out
Had a similar problem. Absolutely in love with the Primal UX. Amethyst is just ugly, Wisp is good but been unsure after they removed Tor. But Wisp isn't bad on mobile either.
I thought this was interesting - so did some initial quick analysis on this. Even for yourself (which is quite high compared to others), the posts that aren't seemingly on the Primal server seem to be fairly random (in terms of content, not necessarily the critical ones of Primal) - although
@fuckstr looks more content based :-)
Source code:
GitHub
GitHub - BenGWeeks/censtr: Tools for analysing whether Nostr clients are censoring users
Tools for analysing whether Nostr clients are censoring users - BenGWeeks/censtr
Chart:
Primal Missing Posts by Month
---
CLAUDE ANALYSIS (who has been known to be wrong!):
I ran a deeper analysis using scripts that query Primal's actual caching service (wss://cache2.primal.net/v1) and compare the results against the relays Primal claims to index (from their open-source config on GitHub). I tested the 4 named users (semisol, fuckstr, ralf, onyx) plus controls (jack, fiatjaf, jb55) and myself. The code and full results are at
GitHub
GitHub - BenGWeeks/censtr: Tools for analysing whether Nostr clients are censoring users
Tools for analysing whether Nostr clients are censoring users - BenGWeeks/censtr
The posts missing from Primal's cache don't appear to be content-targeted. For the allegedly censored users, the missing posts include mundane "gm nostriches" messages, emoji replies, and technical discussions — mixed in randomly with the critical ones.
Notably, jb55's harshest anti-Primal posts (calling Primal "the biggest existential risk to nostr", accusing them of being "an op", and naming onyx, ralf, semisol and fuckstr as censorship victims) are all kept on Primal's cache. If they were filtering bycontent, those would be the first to go. The missing posts instead correlate with post age (older posts evicted first), postingvolume (high-frequency posters like fuckstr at 71% vs my 3%), and reply status (replies dropped before originals). These patterns affect all users including the controls.
That said, Primal's architecture remains a legitimate structural concern. Their open-source code confirms infrastructure exists for blocking pubkeys at ingestion and retrieval, Web of Trust scoring (PageRank-style), and content moderation rules applied at read time. Users can't add relays to work around it. Whether or not it's being used for political censorship today, the capability is there — and that's worth monitoring.
can someone translate this to a retard like me? like you are telling it to 5 year old?
@node @Constantin please help 😆
although interesting that this post isn't on Primal :-)
As someone who's been targeted by Primal, it's about controlling overall visibility, not content-specific.
Horrible posts can be better to allow than good posts, because a horrible post loses the poster followers / gets the poster muted, reducing overall visibility.
It's a symptom of the core sickness driving modern echo chambering - the belief you shouldn't just get to decide who listens to you, but who gets to have anyone listen at all.
Phrased last part wrong - shouldn't just get to decide who you listen to, but who gets to have anyone listen at all.
Just woke up, morning brain
Basically an analysis shows Primal is picking what posts to censor almost randomly. No connection between what's in the post and what gets deleted.
thanks digit 👍🫡
Had to switch over to
@YakiHonne in order to see this thread.
Not going to ditch primal over it but the censorship is certainly not a good look. Also the UX is complete shit when they do it and something I have been complaining about for a while. Even if they do not fully censor someone a thread is impossible to follow if you have personally muted someone
Understand the need to curate user feeds for newbies but there has to be a better way to present it to users without full censorship. I like how @nostur does it where it displays a message that you have the user muted and you can choose to view the note.
Could you not do something similar with a controversial user?
no
> people will think nostr is censored, centralized, and unreliable
>
Well, it is.
Open two "reliable" clients of your choice and compare the feed side by side.
Then go to someone's profile and try to look at posts older than two months.
The sad truth is that you don't even need to censor Nostr on purpose. It's pure gambling with what you're going to see as the baseline.
this is crazy to me. Its the big purple button . The entire ui is copied from twitter.
its probably not censorship, but a flaw in their design
I’ve always said their design is fundamentally flawed and will start failing when clients switch to the outbox model, which apps like amethyst and wisp are already doing (and damus android in next version)
I believe the purpose of a system is what it does, especially when VC money is involved and the "embrace extend extinguish" pattern is fit perfectly
Even if you only blamed them for incompetence, they've been around long enough that they should have fixed this by now. At this point they should have the most polished web client out there. But still, up to almost a third of notifications don't come through, other clients show almost twice as many replies to your notes. You're literally missing a huge chunk of people commenting on your notes. And apparently Primal can show follower counts because of the caching server, while other clients show much more realistic numbers. It's like that from the beginning.
This thing probably isn't even in alpha yet, let alone something you'd recommend to beginners. And that's with a team and funding.
This has to be a troll
Am I the only one using Nostur as my daily driver?
Nostur is what inspired me to make my own client!
Ooooo awesome. What did you use to make your client? Care to share it?!
Yes you are.
It's a great client, but also bat shit crazy.
I love it, but can't use it as my daily driver 😂
What makes it crazy?
I love it, you need to ask people that don't love it why they don't use it 😂
Nostrvault.app
That’s such a weird argument. These apps all have the same standard feature. It’s called a “FAB” (floating action button).
Nice dude!
If I look at Wisp and then at noStrudel my timelines match (mostly). Reason being, both my clients use the same inbox/outbox settings.
your mindest in this matter is one of the problems.
The web client still has some of the most egregious bugs that I pointed out months (in some cases years) ago that have never been fixed. It’s at the point where it seems intentional.
Because they thought the zaps were right. Around the same time
@semisol made a point of UI issues with HUGE (fake) zaps.
@ralf is a very decent person unlike the other guy.
right = rigged. auto-correct.
They were censored because I made their post #1 on trending.
Can confirm this. It was pleasure having interaction with him and Ewelina.
Two of the best humans on nostr imho
OK, but that was no reason to penalize him.
I said the reason not that it was a good reason
Your self-hosted image isn’t showing up. Cloudflare is throwing a 502 error.
Thanks for this analysis. 🤙🏼💜
Haven’t scanned clients for iOS lately since primal is stable with good UX. Played the try-them-all-game previously, but what is the best iOS option today?
nostur, i think wisp is coming soon as well
@utxo the webmaster 🧑💻That's also the result of funneling all events through one server. If the server gets overloaded or goes down, the events get stuck waiting to get through that funnel or might even get accidentally dropped en route.
Need at least 2 default inbound channels, in my opinion, and they need to be from completely different machines. That's why I add wss://nostr.land as a default, everywhere, even though it's not my own relay. If wss://theforest.nostr1.com goes down, I don't want people's feeds to die 🪦 .
Absolutely.
On RHR he can sound like a dick at times but on his actual show he sounds like a lot nicer more respectful and reasonable
I have to admit I tried probably just the first version and then not checked anymore.. 😅
I’d check it again
Yep. I've tried them all, NoorNote is the best.
Don't get me started on the implementation of Spark ;-)
The NWC feature should be hidden from the interface. It only works when the mobile app is remotely paired with their web app.
It already had to be removed from the Bitcoin Connect grid.
What’s wrong with my mindset?
You have to be joking😏...
By your own words the client is shit yet you continue to use it.
The client is not shit. Still a great client in my opinion. It works and is easy to use.
The UX sucks when there is a controversial user that they have decided to censor which is what I am calling out or you have personally muted someone you do not want to hear
thanks for explaining
